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Jurgen Smith
Quizaboom Team Member
Joined: 19 Aug 2007 Posts: 547 Location: 19th Century Ganymede
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:45 pm |
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Why is having the M1 pool/M2 pool/untested pool represented better than not doing that? Not sure why this is an aspect to be preserved. |
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Tango Totoro
Quizaboom Team Member
Joined: 02 Jul 2008 Posts: 1277
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:54 pm |
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I tried to explain my reasoning in the post I linked. It relies on the assumption that M1 and M2 each had one spy in them. The spies are spread amongst the three pools so it makes sense to draw people from all of them.
In fact, odds are that spies are more concentrated in the untested pool, which is why I would vote against having more than one untested player on a team.
None of this is meant to stop you from making judgements based on your readings of people. It's just one factor to consider. _________________
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Joyce Carpenter
Joined: 11 Jul 2017 Posts: 9
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:15 pm |
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Tango Totoro wrote: |
If the team Joyce ultimately picks gets rejected, Nickyh will be the fifth and final mission leader for M3. He will have ultimate power to pick whoever he wants, so if he's a spy we automatically lose.
Given that, I feel we should hedge against the risk he could be a spy by not including Nickyh on this team. |
A fair point. if this mission succeeds, then we're down to Nickyh anyway, so maybe it is okay to not include him in the team for now.
Marshall Brancacane wrote: |
Tango, I trust. But, is still difficult. Regardless of how I feel, there was still a spy in a mission he was a part of and with the absence of any evidence whatsoever, no one can be entirely sure. What do you think of Tango, Joyce? Other than being in your 'may' list, of course. What do you think of his playing? |
I really can't make too much of Tango, to be honest. His reasoning as somewhat hinted, is fairly reasonable and sound. That's all I can make out of it.
Of course, I trust no one in this game, and I am not and cannot be sure that the people I am speaking to are not spies working in unison, going with the confusion and doubt that may have occurred as a result of the finger pointing, the failed missions, all of that stuff.
Tango Totoro wrote: |
My (admittedly selfish) suggestion is put me on the team instead of Nickyh. This team is drawing members from all the different pools, so subbing me in would preserve that aspect of it. |
Look, it is not about the pools of people which I draw from. As I said, I don't trust anyone in the game. But what I can do is to gauge a certain level of distrust based on your posts. Why do you think we should "preserve that aspect", that we have people from M1, M2 and now this lady, who has never been in a mission before, who is untested, to be in the team?
There's no need to, in fact, you can remove me even if you want. I do think though, that it may be fair to put you in instead of Nickyh. And why you? I'd rather work with a more restricted pool of people, than to add, Marshall, who is also untested, and now we are dealing with two untested people, potentially spies.
This is the new preliminary list of people:
Joyce Carpenter (myself)
Jurgen Smith
Takeoshi Totoro
Tango Totoro
What do you all think? Any objections? _________________ It is okay to have lived life and then to die. However, many people have died before having even lived. It is sad really. |
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Rojoco Anderson
Joined: 15 Feb 2008 Posts: 481 Location: England, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:39 pm |
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I won't be approving a team including both Tango and Jurgen as I get the impression they are on opposite sides. I'd also be happier if you went back and included Nickyh as Ninjabear's adamant distrust of him only makes me want to trust him more. |
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Ninjabear Simpson
Comic Team Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2008 Posts: 1388 Location: France
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:42 pm |
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I prefer this team. My M1 player point of view is that Tango is the most unlikely to be the spy among the two others. I wish for the best.
Come on, Rojoco! If I were a spy, I'd be taking all of you for fools, playing so obviously. Believe what you want. Only people from the same team can judge one another so categorically. You can't. And with this post, you just sound like what you accuse me of souding like. You're still in my distrust list anyway.
Last edited by ninja-bear on Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Rojoco Anderson
Joined: 15 Feb 2008 Posts: 481 Location: England, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:46 pm |
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Is it just me or does this game feel really imbalanced in favour of the spies? |
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Knyh Risotto
Bug Hunters Team Member
Joined: 05 Jan 2008 Posts: 2358 Location: BACKWARDS
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:09 pm |
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Rojoco Anderson wrote: |
Is it just me or does this game feel really imbalanced in favour of the spies? |
The original tabletop version the game was said to be won by the spies around 60% of the time. I'm not sure what difference forum play makes but it is intentionally supposed to be difficult for the non-spies to win. Ideally you'd play several quick games tabletop so everyone would get the chance to be on both teams. _________________
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Joyce Carpenter
Joined: 11 Jul 2017 Posts: 9
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:10 pm |
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Rojoco Anderson wrote: |
I won't be approving a team including both Tango and Jurgen as I get the impression they are on opposite sides. |
Would you mind elaborating on that? What makes you think so?
The reasoning for removing Nickyh is simply because he's up next, and if that the mission succeeds, he will have the power to choose a team. Right now, the focus is to not slip up, and to not allow for a single spy to pass through.
We've more room for error in the next round, but this round, its a do or die thing. A slip up and we're toast. Remember that. _________________ It is okay to have lived life and then to die. However, many people have died before having even lived. It is sad really.
Last edited by joyce72 on Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ninjabear Simpson
Comic Team Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2008 Posts: 1388 Location: France
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:16 pm |
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I also thought they were on different teams but reading the posts again made me think they were both townies. I actually figured out that every townie starts in their own team of one person. It's in fact normal for two townies to sound like they're from different teams if they suspect each other a bit, or have different strategies to win. That's what I think happened to Tango and Jurgen. |
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Rojoco Anderson
Joined: 15 Feb 2008 Posts: 481 Location: England, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:30 pm |
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Joyce Carpenter wrote: |
Rojoco Anderson wrote: |
I won't be approving a team including both Tango and Jurgen as I get the impression they are on opposite sides. |
Would you mind elaborating on that? What makes you think so? |
From the way they were battling each other with statistics near the start of the game.
Joyce Carpenter wrote: |
The reasoning for removing Nickyh is simply because he's up next, and if that the mission succeeds, he will have the power to choose a team. Right now, the focus is to not slip up, and allow for a single spy to pass through.
We've more room for error in the next round, but this round, its a do or die thing. A slip up and we're toast. Remember that. |
I'm well aware of that, which is why I want to get this team right. If you share my suspicion of Ninjabear, and you've gone on record saying you have a "high level of distrust" for him, then you should really consider including players he's been targeting. |
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Nickyh Smith
Joined: 12 Dec 2007 Posts: 933 Location: Taiwan
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:52 am |
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I don't agree with the reason that I've been swapped out, since I believe me (who I know is 100% townie) is less risky than Tango. However, I think Tango is a reasonable substitute, so I can go along with it.
I'm still uncertain about Jurgen, since a single spy will end the game for us. But, this is going on a hunch with no solid argument, so I would (reluctantly) approve the current team on a vote.
Now the fun part for you guys: if I approve this team and you're deadset that I'm a spy, does that imply there's a spy on the team? Who could it be _________________
Bleach Risotto wrote: |
When will Lolbear learn? |
Lolbear Simpson wrote: |
Learn what? |
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Joyce Carpenter
Joined: 11 Jul 2017 Posts: 9
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:19 pm |
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Marshall, you mention that you "started to suspect Nickyh a little more". Why do you think so?
Also, Rojoco, anyone can play with statistics in the game. I don't think that they are opposed, but rather, people who are just trying to use whatever knowledge or method they have to try to get a strategic hold. I really do not detect the hint of anything worth suspicion from that.
Look, some people don't trust Nickyh, some people don't trust Jurgen, I (and yourself too) don't trust Ninjabear. I mean, I don't exactly trust you, or anyone else for the matter. Anyone can distrust someone, but I want to make my decision based on substantiated claims.
Look, the deadline is nigh, and I want to make a decision.
I am going to go with the second team, which includes Tango.
Anyone other than Rojoco with objections to this? If not, this will be my final decision. You've a few hours left to decide. _________________ It is okay to have lived life and then to die. However, many people have died before having even lived. It is sad really. |
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Nickyh Smith
Joined: 12 Dec 2007 Posts: 933 Location: Taiwan
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:24 pm |
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Joyce Carpenter (myself)
Jurgen Smith
Takeoshi Totoro
Tango Totoro
This list, yes? I would begrudgingly approve it, yeah. _________________
Bleach Risotto wrote: |
When will Lolbear learn? |
Lolbear Simpson wrote: |
Learn what? |
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Takeoshi Totoro
Warbears Mockup Master
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 2172
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:32 pm |
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Knyh Risotto wrote: |
Rojoco Anderson wrote: |
Is it just me or does this game feel really imbalanced in favour of the spies? |
The original tabletop version the game was said to be won by the spies around 60% of the time. I'm not sure what difference forum play makes but it is intentionally supposed to be difficult for the non-spies to win. Ideally you'd play several quick games tabletop so everyone would get the chance to be on both teams. |
I would say this forum version is very imbalanced.
When played irl you have a lot more information. You have what people say but also the way they say it, differences in body language and tone. In this forum version you only have what is said and at that point it’s my word versus your word. It means there isn’t really much to discuss as there’s no proof to be found.
Another reason would be the spies have as much time as they please to formulate a response to anything said about them and have plausible deniability when not replying. They don’t have to think of anything on the spot. The hesitation in answering doesn’t give any information.
This is why when playing forum mafia you have a tonne of roles. It complicates the game, keeping it interesting over longer phases and also means there’s stuff to discuss when missing the human interaction.
These games need to be played faster and probably at least over voice chat to actually be good tbh. Nobody can be arsed caring when a 30 second mission suggestion to rejection loop takes a week. |
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Marshall Brancacane
Joined: 22 Jul 2010 Posts: 105 Location: England
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:36 pm |
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Marshall Brancacane wrote: |
Throughout the game Nickyh and Ninjabear have been bombarding one another as well as Tango with attacks on 'OH, YOU'RE THE SPY'. countered by 'NO, YOU'RE THE SPY.' and by the time Ninjabear gave up, and others began to think that suspicion was being planted on Ninjabear, that's when I started to suspect Nickyh a little more. I can talk about evidence but there's no evidence on anything in the entire player list. Evidence doesn't exist. We all have our feelings and suspicions and mine lay on Takeoshi and Nickyh. |
Here, Joyce. I suspected Nickyh more based on him not letting up, continuing to bombard the others when it had been said numerous times that it's going nowhere, the constant fight between M1 players. And when Ninjabear fell under the wheels, where just about everyone suspected him, he carried on, as if trying to sell it. Just my thoughts on it, I didn't like it, rubbed me the wrong way. Furthermore, what Nickyh just said:
Nickyh Smith wrote: |
Now the fun part for you guys: if I approve this team and you're deadset that I'm a spy, does that imply there's a spy on the team? Who could it be |
This really takes the cake. It seems smug and sarcastic and just really feels like a spy move to me to have people change their minds because actually the team is okay. But, speculation is all. I didn't like it, that's all.
The team is okay, I think. I trust Tango and Jurgen as I said, Joyce I'm willing to trust you too, but I'm still a little shaken about where my trust lies with Takeoshi. I'm unsure whether to recommend a substitute or not: your call, really.
Last edited by marshall135 on Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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