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Crazyone Totoro
Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 850
Location: Warbears, UK :3
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 Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:43 pm |
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What even...
Okay, shenanigans have definitely happened. I presume Globox was roleblocked if you got a No Result? Globox, I'm sorry that I didn't trust you before, as it's pretty obvious now that you're not Montague. You looked suspicious before.
So, I see a few ways this mess happened.
1) Bus driver swapped Tango and his target (maybe you, Globox? Though Tango's lynch vote was random so who knows) and Miniman was Montague'd
2) Tango targeted Miniman and then Tango got Montague'd (I'm not sure whether this works mechanically)
3) Serial Killer got roleblocked Night 1 but killed Miniman/Tango night 2
Someone look over this and tell me whether it makes sense?
EDIT: Okay yeah judging by the way Jurgen wrote it, it looks like Tango really did manage to somehow kill himself. Welp. That makes option 2 and 3 less likely (3 is still possible-ish). Sorry, I'm tired. I'll theorise more once I've got some sleep. |
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Katz Giffuri
Joined: 03 Jul 2010
Posts: 176
Location: Behind U With A Knife. Cuttin U A Piece of Cake.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:47 pm |
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| Knyh Risotto wrote: |
| Takeoshi Totoro wrote: |
showed no result? as in the attempt failed?
Surely that means you were roleblocked and you still cant confirm whether you are the real cop or not. |
If Tango and Rojoco were swapped, then Globox would have actually targetted Tango. As he died, and killings happen before investigations in the priority, no result makes sense because his target was dead so couldn't be investigated.
Also @Globox - You could still be drunk, we have no idea how many drunk cops or real cops (if any) are in the game thanks to Jurgen's sadistic tendencies. |
But roleblocking/jailing has priority over deaths, no? |
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Takeoshi Totoro
Warbears Mockup Master
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 2172
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:48 pm |
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| Knyh Risotto wrote: |
| Takeoshi Totoro wrote: |
showed no result? as in the attempt failed?
Surely that means you were roleblocked and you still cant confirm whether you are the real cop or not. |
If Tango and Rojoco were swapped, then Globox would have actually targetted Tango. As he died, and killings happen before investigations in the priority, no result makes sense because his target was dead so couldn't be investigated. |
I asked jurg and they would still receive a result, so globox was blocked. |
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Knyh Risotto
Bug Hunters Team Member
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 2358
Location: BACKWARDS
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:49 pm |
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| Katz Giffuri wrote: |
| Knyh Risotto wrote: |
| Takeoshi Totoro wrote: |
showed no result? as in the attempt failed?
Surely that means you were roleblocked and you still cant confirm whether you are the real cop or not. |
If Tango and Rojoco were swapped, then Globox would have actually targetted Tango. As he died, and killings happen before investigations in the priority, no result makes sense because his target was dead so couldn't be investigated.
Also @Globox - You could still be drunk, we have no idea how many drunk cops or real cops (if any) are in the game thanks to Jurgen's sadistic tendencies. |
But roleblocking/jailing has priority over deaths, no? |
Yes, but it isn't necessary to get the result Globox says he got. It's entirely possible he was roleblocked too, but to me it just looks like an unlucky switch of Rojoco and Tango.
EDIT: okay apparently investigating dead people still happens whoops
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Takeoshi Totoro
Warbears Mockup Master
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 2172
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:00 am |
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So, from the information we have were I believe we can confirm a certain number of roles as definitely in the game.
Vigilante
Drunk Cop(x2?)
Drunk Role Cop
Boss
Doublevoter
2 Lovers
Bus Driver
Roleblocker/Jailkeeper/Inventor(Any role with blocking potential)
With I would say a strong chance that there are real counterparts of both 'drunk' roles and probably a role cop on the montague side. |
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Crazyone Totoro
Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 850
Location: Warbears, UK :3
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:51 pm |
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Okay, so we can confirm that Globox got blocked/blocked-protected/had an Inventor item be used on him. The question is, who?
Also we don't know who Tango was targeting. I agree with Take in that he must have been swapped with his (unknown) target.
Globox, I assume by your earlier post that you investigated Roxie night 1? We don't yet know whether you're drunk or not so it's entirely possible that she's not a townie. |
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Takeoshi Totoro
Warbears Mockup Master
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 2172
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:07 pm |
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| Crazyone Totoro wrote: |
| Also we don't know who Tango was targeting. I agree with Take in that he must have been swapped with his (unknown) target. |
Its strange that Tango would have used his vigilante ability this soon in the game especially since he made a point about dice rolling his lynch vote. Most likely targets are Globox and Rojoco to me, I don't know who else he may have developed a suspicion on, especially to the point of using a once a game ability.
| Crazyone Totoro wrote: |
| Globox, I assume by your earlier post that you investigated Roxie night 1? We don't yet know whether you're drunk or not so it's entirely possible that she's not a townie. |
Assuming Jurgen isnt a sadist there is probably a real cop on the townie side as otherwise it's near impossible to find Montagues, unless anyone else received a cop role I would assume Globox is relatively trustworthy for now.
The only problem is he's now outed himself as a top priority target before we have ascertained there is a protection role in the game. The only current possibility to save Globox during a night phase would be to use the bus driver, who could be a Montague. |
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Knyh Risotto
Bug Hunters Team Member
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 2358
Location: BACKWARDS
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:57 pm |
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| Crazyone Totoro wrote: |
| Also we don't know who Tango was targeting. I agree with Take in that he must have been swapped with his (unknown) target.. |
Except we do.
| Tango Totoro wrote: |
Killing people indiscriminately is fun though  fyfdvujohwjhjmboufljmmpospkpdp |
See that lovely (formerly) white-text coded message? It's a shift cipher, swapping each letter for the one before it in the alphabet gives (using this site) "EXECUTINGVIGILANTEKILLONROJOCO". I didn't see this last night. However, after remembering a game where Crazyone attempted to insert proof she was the vigilante into a message I looked back at all of his posts and found it. So at this point I think we know that Tango and Rojoco were swapped, and therefore there must be a bus driver in the game.
Globox is probably a cop of some kind, however because Jurgen is a sadist we don't know what team for sure. We also know there is a doublevoter in the game, and they could be mafia too. I'd like to begin building a role list (publicly) so we can all begin to work out what is going on and hopefully flush out the mafia where roles don't make sense.
So far, we have 3/15 dead, all town. We know there are four mafia and I'm sticking to my bet that the lovers are in the game too. This means there are six town roles left of an original nine.
Mafia (4)
Boss - this role must be in the game.
Cop - Some kind of cop is likely, we just don't know which
Other power? - I'd expect the mafia have two powered roles, but what this is I don't know. Roleblocker? Tracker? Watcher? Maybe two and no mafioso. Could be any of the power roles I've highlighted below.
Mafioso - Based on previous experience, I'd put a strong bet on there being a mafioso with no powers.
Town (9, red if dead and confirmed, green if I'm confident they are in)
Drunk Role cop - Simon died and we were told this.
Drunk Cop - Miniman died and we were told this.
Cop of some kind - Globox has claimed he is one.
Vigilante - Tango died and we were told this.
Doublevoter - We know there is one based on end of phase vote counts. Who it is we don't know. It cannot be Katz, Roxie, or Globox based on previous phases.
Vanilla Townie - I've said before (page 4) that there should be one of these on balance, so I think there is. But there might not be because of sadist lord Jurgen.
Roleblocker/Jailer - Globox was roleblocked so one of these is in the game. They might be mafia sided though. I think it's likely a Jailer - A Doctor is a pretty standard role, but I feel Jurgen would like to add some complexity to it. I think it's likely Globox was jailed (hence roleblocked) as he was one of the more likely mafia targets.
Tracker/Watcher - I think these are also likely roles to be in the game, but I have a feeling it's one or the other. Potentially mafia have one, we have the other.
Bus Driver - Swapping shenanigans definitely went on, so there's a bus driver.
Inventor - Again a fairly standard role, could be in the game. Could have roleblocked Globox trying to investigate him and being unlucky.
Bomb - Sadistic Overlord Jurgen would probably love to put one of these in.
Commuter - I'm not too sure about this role. If the Jailer/Doctor aren't in (meaning a roleblocker is), then this could fit. Otherwise I'd say it's unlikely.
Coroner - Maybe, but this role would make this game even more difficult were they to die early. Just how sadistic is Jurgen?
Innocent Child/Miller - I doubt either are in. Maybe if there is not vanilla townie.
Hider - More likely if we don't have a Doctor/Jailer.
Lovers (2)
Two lovers, one of which will have to die at some point, and another which will then become a serial killer. We should try to identify both (ideally) before either dies, so we can stop the SK being too destructive. Not doing so isn't the worst, because they'll be likely to kill mafia too. Please don't take my word for this, I'm very aware I could be completely wrong with this. These are my feelings if the game is following fairly normal role balancing, however Jurgen can do what he wants. There's a game on Mafiascum where everyone was a vanilla townie that he likes, so he could be pulling sadistic shenanigans on us.
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Takeoshi Totoro
Warbears Mockup Master
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 2172
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:12 pm |
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one thing i would add, its very unlikely the montagues have an alignment cop as there is no actual benefit for them, so if they have a cop its a role cop.
I guess at least one of the 'im not sure' roles is yours knyh
so uhhh rojo, role and alignment would be nice to know bearing in mind you were apparently targetted by everyone last night. |
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Rojoco Anderson
Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 481
Location: England, United Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:23 pm |
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| Crazyone Totoro wrote: |
What even...
Okay, shenanigans have definitely happened. I presume Globox was roleblocked if you got a No Result? Globox, I'm sorry that I didn't trust you before, as it's pretty obvious now that you're not Montague. You looked suspicious before. |
Why is it any more clear that Globox isn't a Montague now? I'd like to know what Globox actually discovered about Roxie on Night 1 because as far as I'm aware he hasn't confirmed yet if he's a role cop or alignment cop. Also the fact he got 'No Result' from investigating me last night seems pretty convenient. He's giving us very little information which he could be doing to mask the fact he's not really a cop at all.
| Takeoshi Totoro wrote: |
| so uhhh rojo, role and alignment would be nice to know bearing in mind you were apparently targetted by everyone last night. |
I'm “Gregory, the Coroner for the Townspeople of Verona” so if you remove me from the game it's going to get a lot harder. The reason everyone is targeting me is because you, Globox and Pepper decided to lynch me on a whim the first day, so I'm interested to know what your role is now Takeoshi. |
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Ninjabear Simpson
Comic Team Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2008
Posts: 1388
Location: France
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:37 pm |
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| As everything seems really complex, I'm voting Pepper, for the same reason as previously, which is that he voted against Rojoco for no real reason (he just said "you're a bit defensive" or something like that). |
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Knyh Risotto
Bug Hunters Team Member
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 2358
Location: BACKWARDS
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:26 pm |
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| Ninjabear Simpson wrote: |
| As everything seems really complex, I'm voting Pepper, for the same reason as previously, which is that he voted against Rojoco for no real reason (he just said "you're a bit defensive" or something like that). |
Since nobody seems to want to come forward with anything (I have nothing I haven't already said), I'll go along with this and say Pepper. Lots of silent people about who are also on my radar but Pepper has at least provoked some suspicion.
We can't have another no-kill phase, that leaves the Mafia way ahead because we gain absolutely nothing. I'm hesitant about Rojoco's accusation of Globox, because as nobody can really contest his claim I'm willing to give him another night to hopefully provide some verifiable info before making a real judgement. Going by Jurgens rule we need 8 votes minimum to actually end the phase. We have three, and two more days to the deadline. Extending a phase isn't bad, but if it's two more days of silence we'll never get anywhere. Pleeeease talk people.
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Takeoshi Totoro
Warbears Mockup Master
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 2172
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:00 pm |
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Globox's claimed role seems relatively trustworthy, i believe he is either the cop or drunk cop if only because of Jurgen's initial mistake giving him a result. I dont really subscribe to the idea that Globox being unable to provide much information after two nights suggests he's lying. I would like more clarification on Globox on the result he received on the first night.
From Knyh's theory Pepper is most likely the Doublevoter, no idea on alignment however.
Rojoco's role claim seems pretty legit, at the very least its well thought out. I suggest everyone shares their flavour name as it confirms your alignment without sharing your role.
My flavour name is Rosaline. |
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Knyh Risotto
Bug Hunters Team Member
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 2358
Location: BACKWARDS
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:10 pm |
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| Takeoshi Totoro wrote: |
| From Knyh's theory Pepper is most likely the Doublevoter, no idea on alignment however. |
Are you saying you're not the doublevoter? It could equally be you. If we assume flavour names are related to your role (as they seem; Mercutio being a Vigilante fits with the character. Friar John/The Attendant as drunk or not cops also makes some sense), what does Rosaline make you. She's not seen in the play, only mentioned, so commuter? Hider?
I don't believe in massclaiming in these games (I will if forced but not yet). It completely ruins the fun by immediately showing duplicates and it's often fairly easy to interrogate each and select the mafia. If the Mafia happen to guess unique names (There are enough characters for this to happen), they stay hidden. If flavournames relate to roles then doing this is likely to give up all powerful characters to the mafia, making the game simpler and a fairly easy win for them.
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Takeoshi Totoro
Warbears Mockup Master
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 2172
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:24 pm |
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I agree mercutio being the vigilante does make it seem like the flavour names relate to the roles however i dont believe that to be the case.
Friar John marries R&J and creates the potion that makes juliet appear to be dead[EDIT: got him and friar lawrence mixed up, still nothing there suggests 'role cop'].
'The Attendant' is a side character that if Jurgen was specifically relating the roles would be maybe a hider, an innocent child or a vanilla maybe and not be told they are an important role like Cop.
Assuming we trust rojoco why would Gregory, a capulet servant, be the coroner?
There's a chance some people have roles that relate to their flavour name still but there are enough here that have nothing to do with their roles that it really gives no information.
I think the flavour name only suggests alignment. There isnt really a decent reason not to share your flavour name unless you are worried someone will call you out on your lie.
We need to start rooting out mafia members soon as we have lost 3 townsfolk already without any real leads. |
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